I mean, really?
Why are we teaching our children Latin?
I think I know the answers, but I want to be sure and so I’m asking you: Why are you spending precious classroom time on a dead language?
- Is it to increase your children’s vocabulary?
- Is it because it’s part of a “Classical” curriculum and therefore, must be good?
- Is it because your neighbor is?
- Is it because you’re raising future priests of the Tridentine Rite?
- Or finally, is it because we’re all going to speak Latin in heaven anyway? (Have you heard that one? My mom claims that we will.)
I love Latin. I love hearing it at Mass and praying it as a family. I love knowing that the word “belligerent” (meaning “warlike”) has its roots in the Latin bellum (war) and gerere (to make). Still, I am light years away from being a Latin scholar and it hasn’t been easy for me to fit it into the curriculum. So far, all we have really learned as a family is the Our Father and Hail Mary, along with a handful of vocabulary words from Prima Latina.
In other words, not a lot.
Well, it’s crunch time. I need to decide if I’m going to invest in Latina Christiana for my 4th & 5th graders or if, like so many other impulse purchases, it will become yet another book on the shelf (and there are many).
And are the DVDs worth it?
It’s hard to teach Latin when you’re not a Latin scholar. Those declension things? I think I’ve heard of them…
Finally—and this is a big “finally” in my opinion—my son Joe, (who, as I’ve mentioned, will be starting 7th grade at a local private school), is required to take four years of Latin beginning this year. Should I wait to see what his textbook is and try to teach the younger children alongside him? Or should I bash on regardless with the Memoria Press curriculum?
Thank you for your input.
- Coming up tomorrow: the results of my Impromptu Poll: the Math Edition.
AMDG,
I will give you three more reasons to study Latin in the home school. You could call them the Slacker Mom's Reasons To Study Latin.
(1) Pronunciation isn't all that important, so it's okay that nobody in the home school has spent time with native speakers.
(2) Conversational skills aren't all that important, so it's okay that your class is teeny and doesn't have time to practice asking "What hour is it?" and "I go to the cinema with my friends."
(3) Many of the available homeschool curricula are designed for the situation where the parent/teacher learns along with the student. This is not true about most, say, French or Spanish programs.
A couple weeks ago I went to Mass in North Saint Paul at St. Peter's. And the priest's homily had talked about Latin in it. They have an inscription above the alter in the new church and the priest had said that one parishioner asked why it was in Latin, as wouldn't it have been just as easy to put into English? And I believe that the priest's reasoning is that it's part of the history of the Church, and, in regards to being easy, well, if we always did everything the easy way.. you know where that would get us.
I personally don't know Latin, as I grew up Lutheran. But I think it's a great thing to know, if nothing else for the history and tradition of it.
When I was choosing a Latin curriculum, I asked our boys' high school principal (who also happens to teach every freshman Latin) what he thought of it. I wanted to make certain nothing contradicted what my children would learn later. He said it looked good — and he was being sincere with me. Other than the pronunciations (on the CD they are with a Southern accent) which are Ecclesiastical Latin (see this website: http://www.shrinesf.org/latin.htm ) there have been no contradictions.
We thoroughly enjoy LT, but I find I must embrace it and talk myself into because I'm just that kind of person — which is why I use Seton.
And even though the CDs are a tad torturous (especially when my kids make fun) I need them because it's too much work to try and figure out every single word. And my kids can discern which part is the Southern accent and which is the church Latin. We always pronounce v as w. wia instead of via. Check with Joe's Latin teacher, but my guess is they teach Classical.
Every grown man I know who took Latin as a student at our boys' high school is grateful he did — especially the doctors and lawyers.
By the way, I have the Latina Christiana DVDs, and you are welcome to borrow them to review them. If you decide you like them, I'll sell them to you at a discount, because we never used them. I can see how they would be good for some families though.
I am very impressed with the Memoria Press Latin program (indeed with everything we've gotten from them). Granted, my oldest is a workbook-y kind of kid, so this program suits him very well. And I should add that we have deviated significantly from the suggested lesson outlines, and also have paused from time to time for intensive review. BTW, I am using the program to teach my son and two friends' kids, a boy in the same grade and a girl 2 years older. We are 2/3 of the way done with LCI and will switch to First Form Latin when we finish it.
Why Teach Latin?
From our prospective of older parents with three college age students (two at Vanderbilt, one at Concordia, Moorhead, MN..two high school students, two junior high students and two five year olds). We've been in the trenches of education for a while…as students, college professors (DH as a associate professor of medicine at Case Western in Cleveland and myself as a nurisng instructor.), parents, and finally homeschoolers.
Trends and academic arguments no longer find fertile ground in our home. The statement…"When people show you who they are believe them." can also be applied to education. When you see something that truly works…believe it!
Why teach Latin? Because,while latin may be considered a "dead language" the legacy it leaves behind is rich. 80% of all English words have latin roots. In fact it is true that the majority of the words in most western languages have latin roots including french, german and spanish.
The study of latin requires discipline. Learning that discipline early makes the study of math and science easier down the road.
Latin requires the student to learn how to methodically analytical skills. This methodology will serve the student well in the advance grades, college and grad school in his/her approach to science and math.
Latin is an educational building block.
Linda
I started Prima Latina two years ago when my eldest girl was 7. She did not take to doing the workbook and even though we listened to the CD in the van, nothing seemed to stick.
Last night as she hugged her big stuffed hippopotamus from IKEA that she received as a Christmas gift ("I want a hippopotamus for Christmas") she mentioned that she is glad she knows now that "hippopotamus" means "river horse". Where did she learn that? From listening to the Story of the World CDs this summer. Maybe she is at a riper age for etymology study?!
This year, according to our MODG 4th grade syllabus we are to do either Prima Latina or Latina Christina.
If we had started MODG last year (3rd grade) she would have done English From the Roots Up. No workbooks required – just a few cards a week to present!
I am thinking of doing English From the Roots up anyway after reading an article by Laura Berquist in this month's Mater et Magistra. Are you a subscriber?
I have English from the Roots Up! And it's (sigh) been sitting on the shelf.
Perhaps this is more a question of time management and consistency?
And yes, Tracy, I just received my issue of Mater et Magistra. LOVE that magazine.
I let my husband teach the Latin… when he can get to it, which isn't often.
Linda hit on another important reason to study Latin … it's the basis of many of our words and is also a foundation for the study of other languages. I also like the discipline part of its study … it isn't one of my children's easy subjects.
LCI and II are good according to a local college professor. She used both when teaching classes for our homeschool group. Although she moved through the books much faster than I am.
I, too, need the DVD's. I just don't have the time to sit for that amount of time when I have multiple kids. I am, however, able to figure out translations when necessary. It does take me a while, but I invested in a couple Latin/English dictionaries and that helps me … and the kids. If I did not have the DVD's, we probably would not have stuck with Latin as long as we have.
I took a semester of (graduate level) Latin in college, and I loved it. It was very hard and my husband and I studied more than we have ever studied in our lives, but I loved learning the base for so many words in so many languages. Plus, we got to learn fun phrases like semper ubi sub ubi. 🙂
Blessings!
Hannah
My husband teaches seventh grade Latin. I'll ask him. But I do k now that his favorite Latin text is something called Lingua Latina. The thing that frightens people is that it's entirely in Latin. A kind of full immersion thing.
I love having mine learn Latin but never liked Prima L or LCI – my kids didn't enjoy it and I had zero Latin growing up so we all felt like we were learning Latin without understanding the hows and why. A Latin yahoo group recommended Galore Park texts from the UK – So you really want to learn Latin, etc. They are slightly funny/sarcastic in tone which we love & you are reading stories in Latin in ch 1 which really is rewarding. They have text exercises, workbooks, and fun type game books, too. Amazon has them.
I agree with all the above reasons for teaching Latin. Our family loves talking about roots of words and it can really help on those SATs.
That said, at home my kids have been through Latina Christiana I and half of II. When they went to high school, where they're required to take 4 years, we discovered it only amounted to the first semester! So, for my younger 3, I'm going to do the more fun Latin—English from the Roots Up and Our Roman Roots. That was quite sufficient for my oldest who did very well in Latin and loves languages. They all dislike L.C.
If I end up homeschooling any for high school, we'll definitely do at least 2 years of Latin, probably using the books the high school uses.
I studied Latin for a few years at school and I really loved it.
Though I am Eastern Orthodox Christian, I like to pray in Latin as much as I can 🙂
I am teaching my 11 year old Latin at home during this summer vacation, just for fun,as a project we can do together.
We are using Ecce Romani, which we both enjoy, though we also have Minimus and the Cambridge Latin Course.
Ecce Romani also has some great resources including games, online at http://abney.homestead.com/ecce1.html#anchor_12939
One of the great things about learning Latin, is how much essential English grammar you also learn 🙂
Have you looked at any of Caroline Lwrence's "Roman Mysteries" series of books ? They are all set in the period of the Roamn Empire, and feature four children who are detectives. One of them, Jonathan, is a very early Christian.
They are excellent at depicting life in Ancient Rome as the author is a classical historian, though I wouldn't say they were suitable below age 9 to 10……
I tell my students that they should bother with Latin so that they can write nerdy subject headings for emails, and compose text messages that few will understand.
Besides, when I was on a plane earlier this year, I met a man who had learned Latin in school. What did he remember? "Pulchra puella." The declension memorization was worth it!
I decided not to teach it. I know myself and know that it is something that would sit on my shelf and give me a big guilt complex for not making the time to teach it. With new baby, homeschooling and just doing what we usually do, I know it would be too much. I already have the guilt complex from all the moms who do teach it. I also don't understand it myself and don't feel confident to teach it.
Not what you were looking for in this post, but if you do decide not to do it, even though all the commentors have left excellant reasons for teaching it, maybe you won't feel so bad about yourself, knowing that someone else out there is not teaching it?
Margaret – check out Our Roman Roots for your children. It is a fun program for the ages you mentioned and easier than LC (I think)….plus my kids will never forget learning Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star in Latin…and I hope I don't either. 🙂
I'm definitely in the Latin is good to learn camp – it helps with English vocabulary and grammar, makes it much easier to learn other foreign languages later, and is the language of the Church. I've used both LC1 and Galore Park. IMO Galore Park is much better if you want to really learn Latin – LC is dabbling in comparison. In some ways I liked LC, but my big frustration with it was that by the end of the book you were still not at the stage of reading or writing any usable Latin. With Galore Park they are reading and writing within the first couple of lessons (simple sentences, but real sentences. Latin Prep 1 is the simplest of the Galore Park books, and is suitable for age 8 or 9 and up, depending on ability.
The big downside of Galore Park (for you, not for me!) is that it uses the British order when learning declensions. This could be confusing for a child who later has to learn the American order at school. Also, to be honest, if your younger children are also likely to go to school and study Latin there, doing it at home first isn't that big a deal. They would have to start from the beginning again at school anyway.
The Bookworm said: They would have to start from the beginning again at school anyway.
And that's a very good point. I just got off the phone with my son's [new!} headmaster and he said that in the four years they have it, they go from being introduced to Latin to translating the Aeneid.
In other words, if I teach my children too much Latin, they would be bored that first semester. That's good! I'm off the hook!
I think what I'll do is keep it fun throughout these early years–an introduction but not "drill & kill."
I think. 🙂
Look at "Getting Started with Latin" (Alicia Van Hecke has a reveiw at her love2learn site). Introduces one word a lesson and the author has a support site.
I took Latin in college (required) after four years of Spanish in high school. That said, not having used Latin continuously except at mass, I can manage to teach first year Latin, but rely heavily on my my husband who reads the Divine Office and the Bible daily in Latin. He took Latin in high school and college and has a knack for languages. His favorite text for teaching is "Lingua Latina" (the immersion method). He gets the kids swimming after I give their intial Latin dunking.
Latin is important because:
1) It still is the official language of the Church. It is also the universal language of the Church. There are still many, many texts not translated into the venacular. Ignorance of Latin means you are missing a big chunk of the rich patrimony of our Faith.
2) It is the basis for all the other romance languages. It is also the basis of many scientific terms.
3) Because nouns are declined and verbs conjugated, Latin is an excellent tool for learning grammar (my husband said he did not really get English grammar until he studied Latin).
5) Many older books are written with the assumption the the reader has some familiarity with Latin and classics of western civilization.
I think it is so important, that if you don't feel confident enough to teach it yourself, you should search out someone nearby to do someone kind of co-op class with interested homeschoolers. Maybe someone from your son's school?
Because my dad thinks it's a very good idea. That's enough for me and if you knew him, I'm sure it would be enough for you too. Seriously, though, he's brilliant when it comes to English grammar and he credits that to his Latin studies. It certainly isn't genetic. 🙂
Margaret,
I took 3 years of Latin in high school and one year in college. It's an interesting way to study the ancient world. The Spartans. Cicero. Etc.
I also used it a lot in medical school. You know, they say when you go to med school, you double your vocabulary, so that definitely gave me some advantage.
Plus, I have been surprised how much I have used it since then, even though I have forgotten most of the rules. I can often "read" enough Spanish or Italian to get the gist, even though I never really studied either.
But, if your children are all going to study it at the private school, there's probably not much need to do it sooner, except prayers and such.
Janet
I didn't see anyone mention Lively Latin. (www.livelylatin.com) We've been using it for a couple of years and really like it.
The lessons and activities are interesting and make learning Latin fun. The Magistra has online audio (in both pronunciations) for each lesson which include vocabulary, decelensions, etc. and there are online games (Hangman, Battleship, Concentration) that are fun and help with learning the lessons.
Our older boys have used Prima Latina and some of LCI. We then switched to Lively Latin (which they loved) because they found LC too dry. They are currently studying Henle Latin.
As for fitting Latin into your day, try making it the first subject each day and it won't "fall by the wayside." The minds of children are freshest in the morning and they can really tackle quit a bit first thing so don't worry that they won't be able to handle Latin as the first subject. We've been doing Latin as our first subject for about three years and it's made a big difference in the rest of our studies and in our entire day.
In making Latin a bigger part of your curriculum, you might find it reduces your need for other subjects in part and in some cases entirely. Studying Latin greatly facilitates the learning of English grammar and at least 60% of English words have their root in Latin, so it helps with vocabulary and spelling as well. It also makes learning the Romance Languages easier should you decide to study/teach other languages in the future.
God Bless!
Heidi
I think your mom is right. I also think the Church on earth is moving in a Latin direction – not for the whole mass perhaps, but certain prayers and responses.
But Latin is OUR hardest subject. In fact, we haven't quite finished LC I, and we're supopsed to be starting LC II, um, next week.
No problem.
My attitude this year is that I simply must learn along with him. Fortunately this student of mine is a natural early riser. So he and I have a 7 AM date with the latin books and DVDs if necessary to learn the lessons together.
Latin is a big part of our home school, with kids ranging from 4 to 16. But knowing my limits (time! knowledge!) at grade 7, I turn my kids over to Memoria Press online classes, which they love!
As this is essentially the same as your son taking Latin "at school", I would suggest that praying together is the best part of our Latin for little ones. Instead of feeling like school, it's like doing something extra special together at prayer time. If that is all that fits, it's still a great beginning.
My homeschoolers also go on to four years of Latin at a private school, beginning in 7th grade. (Ours is TS at MV, is yours by any chance TS at RR?)
That's enough reason for me to NOT teach it myself. They get a thorough Latin education that I don't think will be helped much by my early attempts.
Memorizing prayers or Latin roots, yes. Any more than that, no thanks.
That said, child #3 stayed home for 7th grade, so we worked to get him ready to take Latin 2 when he went to 8th grade. We used Ecce Romani like the school (a friend lent me the teacher book) and a GREAT do-it-yourself style workbook called Phenomenon of Language. This is not for younger grades, but it did work to set my student up for success in 8th grade.
We started with English from the roots up cards 2 years ago. We are starting Latina Christiana this year for a few reasons. Latin is the basis of many English words so I figure good basis for decoding and knowing many unknown English words. Also as the official language of the Catholic Chuch I figure WE are missing something by not being able to participate in the Latin mass or prayers. Latin is the only program my daughter has wanted to delve into in the summer. She sat down and watched the DVD for an hour a couple of times this summer. I wouldn't attempt to teach it without the DVD. I think it would be too time intensive and I want to be able to pronounce the words if I'm going to spend the time learning it.
Well, as a formerly homeschooled kid I can say that I still appreciate the little bit of latin that I learned. I would encourage you to focus more on the vocabulary and not worry about the declensions quite so much. I had a very hard time trying to figure out declensions and such, but I found the vocabulary invaluable once I got to college and was taking Anatomy and other biology courses because I didn't have to memorize certain terms since I knew what their root words were(my that was a long sentence).
The curriculum we used was Ecce Romani, which I wouldn't recommend. The only upside to it was that a few parents got together and hired a Classics student from St. Thomas to teach us(and even he couldn't find a way for me to grasp declining words). But once you get to things like the Aeneid it's much more interesting.
I hope this helps!
Just an additional thought on this whole discussion … if I were in the position where my kids would have the opportunity to attend a school (private or otherwise) that included Latin classes, I would definitely not invest as much (ie. DVD's), and I'd probably meet with the instructor or learn about the first year so that I could 'maybe' tailor my teaching to what would be most useful for the child in the class.
And, a confession, I had Roman Roots flashcards that sat in my 'future use' tub for years. I finally sold them at our homeschool book sale. I am making use of the LCI & LCII flashcards, though.
I saw Prima Latina as a Supplemental Resource in the Seton catalog (K-4th) and was tempted to buy the Lingua Angelica CD, but I opted to skip it. After all, this is my first year hsing with a 1st, K, pre-schooler and toddler. Oh yeah, and we're having a baby in December. Maybe next year.
Hi Margaret,
Long time, no "see"! I'm a day late here, but thought I'd chime in.
Our kids all take Latin starting around 6th grade. "Take Latin" – from a gal in our home school group with a Classical Languages degree who offers classes and tutoring to our home school group. If you can afford it, this is really the route to go (IMHO). It has been extremely helpful for them to learn from her, and she uses Cambridge Latin. She has an opinion about all the others (if you want it, you can email me and I'll hook you up with her so you can pick her brain – she's incredible). So if you can find a tutor/teacher locally, I really think the kids will learn it more completely.
Why take Latin? Our older four kids have taken it for 3-4 years each, and now as high schoolers (still at home) they are picking up Spanish pretty easily. Latin is to the Romantic languages what piano is to other instruments: an excellent springboard into mastering the others. Not that I think any of our kids will NEED Spanish – none have plans to be in international careers or live in metropolitan areas where the language mix is much greater than where we live. But, languages are good to learn just like piano/music is good to learn even if they won't be musicians or composers. It helps form their brains, their discipline, and plus it looks good on a transcript :). Very important to me since we're doing high school at home.
One last thing – teaching a language at home, unless it is either a first language or a fluent second one for YOU, is very difficult when you are also teaching all of the other academics, nursing a baby, have older and middle kids, etc. I too have (had) English From the Roots Up and with the best of intentions tried to use it with the older kids when they were 5th or 6th grade. It just didn't work with all the other kids to teach. Not saying you can't do it – just saying that it was such a relief to me to have a very qualified gal start offering these classes.
Hope you're doing well! I haven't been able to pop over too often – my only excuse is the summer has been TOO much fun, with too many great things to do with the kids.
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