Or two.
I thought that the Papal Mass this morning was a bit PC.
And the music? Not at all my cup of tea.
What are your thoughts?
Updated on Friday Morning to Add:
For an article that takes a more scholarly look at the Papal Mass in Washington, see Jeffrey Tucker’s “Music for the D.C. Mass: The End of an Era, and the Beginning of Something New” from The New Liturgical Movement.
Or read the above article along with commentary from Father John Zuhlsdorf at What Does The Prayer Really Say, including this zinger:
“There is no way anyone will ever convince me that in that metropolitan area, the nation’s capitol, a Gregorian schola could not have been developed which would have brought the whole listening world to their knees in wonder at what America can do even with liturgical music.”
Or, to read a short and succinct analogy that really resonated (at least with me), see what +JMJ+ has to say over at Totus Tuus Family and Catholic Homeschool.
Please keep in mind that I am not trying to be divisive or—perhaps even worse—snippy and judgmental in posting these reflections. I know that there are many souls who will be touched on many different levels by the Holy Father’s visit; I saw this during my trip to Denver for World Youth Day ’93. However, having been steeped in the Latin tradition (and after having rejected the Novus Ordo Mass entirely for about a year after my conversion—again, I apologize for that) I am sensitive to liturgical aberrations. The main reason for this is that—at least here in the Twin Cities—a liturgical aberration is often just one step away from a liturgical abuse. I get nervous. I am on guard. I love the Church, and I love Rome.
With love in Christ,
Missed it. 🙂 Went grocery shopping and walking in the sunshine with my babies, instead.
Your opinion is probably worth more than mine. I was there in the flesh, but the sound system wasn’t on in the upper section(s?). I can’t imagine it was an oversight, but I also don’t see why it would be done on purpose. It was very disappointing to hear so little (mostly echoes from down below).
Sorry you didn’t enjoy it. This is my Archdiocese (Washington D.C.) and it was a reflection of our true Mass –even our weekly music on Sunday is extremely multi-cultural. In my parish church (in a little suburb of Maryland) we have 6 English Masses a Sunday, 6 Spanish Masses, and one in French. Immigrants come to D.C. from all over the globe. It’s a blend of many cultures in church, but all are extremely devoted to the one true faith.
Did you check out the beauty of the song sung by Placido Domingo?
I prayed for you and your family’s intentions at the Papal Mass.
I missed it but have been disapointed by this sort of thing before. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
Cat
Raymond Arroyo and Father Newhouse also discussed the e-mails they were getting and many of them disappointed in the multi-cultural aspects of the Mass. At first it annoyed me until I realized once again that Catholic is Universal. I do appreciate the different sounds coming from our Family. The most annoying thing? The second lector/reader. Boy! Was she stiff!!
Well, this is where my traditional background reveals itself. I would have preferred there to be a bit more Latin.
And it’s not that I mind a multicultural liturgy. It’s just that this one seemed so darned self-conscious about it.
Abigail, I mean no offense to your Archdiocese. I agree with you that Placido Domingo’s singing was lovely, as always. And thank you thank you thank you for your prayers.
Margaret,
Couldn’t agree with you more. I found the music very distracting and all over the place. Not my cup of tea either. I’m a coffee drinker.
Missed it. I did hear a snippet behind a news blurb about it on the radio. It was nice to hear that beautiful Latin Gloria from what Fr. D refers to as “The Mass of the Angels”.
I’m with you. (Tetigisti acu!)
I turned it on too late, but just time to hear “Mass is ended, go in Peace.” Oh, well…
I really wonder what the Holy Father’s thoughts are?
An E-Free friend asked about what I thought of the Pope’s visit, today! Was I excited he was here in the US? And she wanted him to really speak out about life beginning at conception . . . the smallest life is a baby not a fetus, etc. It caught me off-gaurd to see her so excited and in anticipation of what he would say to US audiences. I haven’t been able to listen & there’s not much to watch on non-cable TV. So, I wait with anticipation, as well, to read what our Pope has said and what he really thinks.
Agreed, come visit my blog for my analogy.
I’m with you. There are ways to respectfully reflect our multicultural society while keeping a more reverent tone. After all, Pope Benedict has written extensively on using appropriate music during liturgies. There has to be ways to honor cultures without having such music during the distribution of Communion! It doesn’t have to be Latin to have the right tone — but some of that at the Mass today was just not at all appropriate for a Papal Mass. I agree with the the EWTN comment that it was unfortunate!
I was also astonished to hear that the concession stands were open during Mass — and during communion — and people were buying hot dogs!
The kids and I watched it one pope2008.com. I called my husband to muse about whether Pope Benedict was having a hard time being charitable in the face of such irreverance (the music mostly)–then realized that really I was the one having a hard time. . .
But the Mass I’m used to has all latin chant, and a latin Novis Ordo–so I am used to a high level of reverance and formality.
I thought it was self-conscious also.
I had the great privilege of attending the Mass yesterday and share your sentiments regarding the in-your-face multiculturalism that was injected in it. I think Jeffrey Tucker at New Liturgical Movement http://thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com/2008/04/music-for-dc-mass-end-of-era-and.html explained it very articulately.
And to correct a comment from Elizabeth about the concession stands being open during the liturgy…they were not. The concessions closed at 9am (in fact they ran out of food before that!) and re-opened after the final blessing.
It was “different”, but very bearable to me. When my daughter went to school in Washington D.C. this is the type of music that was sung in the churches. I don’t think it helps to bring Catholics together when people start critiquing so harshly. It was a beautiful mass. Not exactly what I’m “used to” as Margaret said, but very bearable. We need to remember that Washington D.C. is very multicultural, and might focus a tad bit more on “PC” than many other dioceses. All in all, it was a beautiful mass.
Annie in MD — Thank you! I’m glad to hear that the concession stands were closed. If I wasn’t clear, I should have specified that I’d read that on another blog of someone who was there who said he was distracted by the smell and people at the concession stand during communion. In such a big stadium, perhaps one stand didn’t get the message to close!
In retrospect, I agree that it all did seem a bit “forced”. Don’t get me wrong in my earlier comment; I am a traditionalist (being a convert, it wasn’t the music that drew me in – it was the choice to raise our children Catholic and then, and only now, the Eucharist). In the military chapel I go to, the music director has zero singing ability and the choir is made up of little girls. Everyone complains that the music is “dead” and “off-putting”. It is, however, traditional and he sings songs in Latin, which I like. Many are pushing for a more Life Teen sound (which I find grating on my nerves when I’m trying to pray after receiving the Eurcharist). The Life Teen music is mostly made up of what I remember in my non-denominational days. I have to ask myself if that is what I want to be a part of and expose my children to. We don’t go to Mass for the music and to be entertained/entertaining. IF you don’t get the Beauty in the Mass, you miss Christ altogether.
Margaret, you say just about everything in a wonderful manner. You are a blessing to those who read your blog – thanks for letting us all share in the conversation. Not to mention, in the very personal an painful areas of your life. You are beautiful and I’m going to keep praying for you.
Just for the record, I once attended the priestly ordinations of the Society of Pius X in Econe, Switzerland (the SSPX being perhaps one of the most hyper-traditional Catholic sects out there), and there was a food stand AND beer garden open throughout the entire 4-hour ceremony. I was a bit scandalized, but then again, I was often scandalized when I was affiliated with this group. (Sad but true.)
Sorry Margaret,
I just realized that I should have left my opinion on this comments page instead of emailing you. oops.
anyway, I’m with Father Z.
Amy
Margaret:
Yesterday’s Mass perfectly illustrated the point our dear Holy Father has been trying to make for quite some time, regarding the place of primacy for sacred music.
Yesterday was Babel…remember that place? The place where God “confused the languages” of the people and then scattered them about the earth?
A traditional Mass (and I’m not talking strictly Latin here, but one in accordance with the GIRM) with all the trappings would not have been an accurate picture of what the Church in America has become. I am quite heartened that our Holy Father was allowed to see things as they are…It is only when the cancer is revealed, that the patient can be healed.
Does anyone still wonder why the Church used Latin nearly exclusively for so many hundreds of years? Una voce…one voice…not the confusion of many.
My comments, of course, are with all due respect.
I don’t feel confindent in my abilities to discuss whether the music of the Mass was liturgically appropriate.
I do, however, feel confident in proposing that perhaps what it most important is furthering the spirt of charity in thought and word in which we discuss all things related to the Papl visit and Mass. Is it not better to pass over in silence the errors of others and bring up only those deds which are positive and and helpful?
The liberal media is doing a terrific job of criticing the pope and the Church…I think it’s best to offer only positive commentary, including comments on the Mass, on what is happening by having him in our country.
The problem I had with the music is exactly what Abigail said…it was a reflection of the people. When did Mass in America become all about us? Why did they feel the need to say “look what we can do!” instead of “look how we can honor our most special guest?”
I know that JPII was a great promoter of local culture and appreciated the gift of themselves that people brought to God. But Benedict is not JPII and if the DC diocese was trying to welcome him shouldn’t they have made the decision to cater to his preferences, like a good host would?
JPII had many wonderful talents, but music was not one of them. B16 has such an amazing gift of music and an appreciation for sacred music in particular. He is a self described “Mozart man”. I have to agree with Margaret and many of the other commenter and linked to writers. “Self conscious” is right and very charitable; I would be tempted to add “bordering on narcissistic”.
Anonymous above,
I guess we were cross posting. I understand what you are saying, but with all due respect, the conversation here has been very charitable and is a very different discussion than what is going on in the liberal media. I think, like Kimberly said, we can’t begin to heal until we acknowledge what the problem is.
Ooo. Touchy subject. I wrote a little bit while listening online at work yesterday. My main thought was, and is that it is a shame that the musical ‘show’ will distract so many from the sacrifice being offered.
We all have different tastes in music and let it distract us from focusing on the mass. Granted, some of those selections during distribution of Communion were not the most appropriate and too bouncy (I’m having trouble coming up with the right word here).
The music selections could have been better and I had trouble with the multitude of languages employed, yet the mass was still beautiful.
I have never had the priviledge of attending a Latin rite mass. I went to Catholic school for 12 years and am currently the children’s choir director for my parish yet I know very little prayers/responses in Latin. Pater Noster are the only two words of the Our Father I can recite in that language.
Yet I am seen as old fashioned in my musical tastes by many of my fellow parishioners.
If we switch completely to the Latin rite some will leave the church. If we continue with both rites, well, the church is split with two different forms of celebration.
I hope that Pope Benedict XVI does reveal his opinion and official stance on the music used during the celebrations during his visit. It would provide so much insight and guidance for those of us responsible for liturgical planning.
I deleted my comments before posting. I’m too dsicouraged. I waited 20 years for my family to be ready for me to be in the choir loft instead of hearding toddlers only to always be wrong no matter what we sing. It is very hard to sing with joy when you know this half of the church will complain if you sing 1 Latin song and the other half will complain if you don’t sing more than one. Everyone will complain about the note that was wrong and maybe once a year they’ll remember to pray for the choir at the Prayer of the Faithful.
Personally my email to Raymond Arroyo was not read. I was upset that after teaching my kids about all the places we came from in US History this year that he spoke over the Prayer of the Faithful unnecessarily pointing out the effort to show the multicultural reality of the area. Maybe if he was politely translating I would nat have felt like he was insulting them on a National Broadcast. I think he was very in appropriate.
can i offer my humble take? i think that the mistake we “americans” tend to make is, that we want to make the mass have “broader” appeal. this may have been what was being attempted by making the music multicultural (and knowing that it would be broadcast countrywide/worldwide)-to make it more palatable. which, for those of us who are more traditional, seems, frankly, oxymoronic (does that make sense?) in otherwords, of course EVERYONE likes hotdogs, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to ELEVATE them to the level of filet mignon if given the chance. we americans keep making the mistake of just giving out the hot dogs…in an attempt to make everyone happy. side note, i watched vespers with the bishops on cnn the evening before and it was BEAUTIFUL very very BEAUTIFUL traditional singing. and you know what, even the newscasters were in absolute awe over what they were seeing and hearing. i cried through the whole thing. IT WAS SO POWERFUL AND SO MOVING. mel
one more quick thing about vespers-i thought it so beautiful and moving that the pope prayed the vespers with the bishops….i told my son, who watched it with me, imagine if peyton manning came and played football with your team…you know? it was such a loving, unifying and supporting thing to do….one of my proudest moments to be a catholic….one of many during this visit, one of many.
mel
I live in the D.C. area and I swear that the Basilica’s choir is the most heavenly on Earth! I go down for Mass every now and again and it’s such a treat!! The Basilica is also quite conducive to prayer – it’s so absolutely lovely! And, they sing in Latin.
I don’t think folks will leave the Church over the song choices – they’ll find another parish perhaps. I can’t imagine. I have stuck through the bad singing at my parish (except when the Spanish Choir comes in). Perhaps I sing badly as well, but it would help if everyone sang. Does anyone else have this issue at their parish? I like having both Latin and English songs at Mass.
I have never been to a Latin Rite Mass. There are parishes in our area that have them. Now, I want to go since this issue has piqued my interest.
I feel for the choir director that posted. God bless you – all you can do is try, huh?
I completely agree. Now, I am not in any position to critique. I am a convert of only 3 years. However, I almost got the feeling even the Pope was rolling his eyes. OK, maybe not, but I was. What if they did use more Latin? Instead of making those of us who don’t speak any other language miss out on part of it, and those others who may not speak much English, we could all understand it together. One church, one language, right?
Don’t get me wrong. For the most part we go to the Novus Ordo masses. But sometimes we do go to the Latin mass, and the tradition and reverence is really astonishing. At our “regular” mass, I am always pleased when they add more Latin.
I’m a different anonymous from all the previous ones.
I find the comparison of “multi-cultural” music to hot dogs to be very elitist and very uncharitable. Why is is it that being multi-cultural (don’t like that word) is something that should be done BEFORE the mass as entertainment. The Catholic church isn’t composed of just Anglo’s, is it?
And there are many who can’t relate to or understand Latin.
Why is it okay to have Latin but any music other than “American” is inferior, and beneath the dignity of the mass.
There are many countries that don’t speak English. And while other languages are minorities, America is indeed a melting pot and not comprised of just Anglos.
I wonder how many of those criticizing the “multi-cultural” distinction have ever even gone to a mass in a different language (other than Italian when visiting Rome or in Latin).
The Catholic church is really diverse!! And rather than having 2-3 papl masses for different ethnicities, I would think “good” Catholics could learn to love their brother rather than be upset that the mass didn’t live up to their ideal because “mutli cultural” music that they didn’t understand or don’t feel comfortable with or doesn’t live up to their ideal, had to be endured.
Many of you sound narrow minded and while I don’t think your racist, your comments are.
They really are. English speaking Americans tend to forget that there is a whole ‘nother world out there …. perhaps living across the railroad tracks or on the other side of town.
And they should feel just as welcomed to the Papal mass.
And unless the Pope actually rolled his eyes, I don’t think that we should deduce that he was doing that mentally, just because many of you were.
This discussion was very saddening. I pray my children never feel ostracized when they get older because they are “multi-cultural.”
BTW, “multi cultural” is just a nice way of saying minority.
Rolling his eyes? Honest to Pete! Recalls images for me of Hillary Clinton at Bush’s first State of the Union after 9/11. The *Pope* rolling his eyes? Oh, I hope not!
Some here have mused that the DC planners did a poor job of being hosts by not being more careful to cater to the Pope’s personal preferences. May I respectfully suggest that the Mass is not intended to honor *him* at all? And even if it were, do you honestly expect that the Pope would be such a poor guest as to express such displeasure over the music offered (and with such immaturity besides!)–or worse, to criticize it later, for everyone’s “benefit?” My expectation is that he will offer nothing but kind praise, and no doubt heartfelt at that.
I am sorry that people were unhappy. But the choir director is right. People are not only impossible to please, but they can be so mean. I remember our organist when I was in grade school–a talented high schooler who did her best–regularly got “helpful” feedback such as “stop the screeching from the choir loft.” Written, so bravely, on a scrap of paper tossed in the collection basket. (Since she also counted the collection every week, she was sure to see it, too.)
“Love doesn’t notice when others do it wrong.” And I have no doubt at all that the music for that Mass was conceived in love, and offered in that spirit. Why not just let it go at that?
I have to admit, I’m very disappointed by this thread. You may think yourselves charitable here–no one is name-calling, after all–but I wonder. I hope you’re not substituting personal preference for what you expect the Pope, and God for that matter, should want…from the people he wants to *shepherd*, not crush.
Okay, the last two anonymous posters need to be addressed.
NO ONE is being uncharitable or elitist or (good heavens!) racist to point out that there are standards for sacred music, and that what was displayed at the Papal Mass fell far, far, far short of those standards.
(And the commenter who accused everyone of “Anglo” tastes and anti-minority opinions–how on earth do you discern the races of people writing comments in a comment box? How do you know some of these commenters aren’t minorities themselves?)
The music at Mass isn’t about us. It isn’t “Look at us, see how diverse we are,” or “Look at us, see how well we perform.” What it’s SUPPOSED to be saying is “Look at Him.”
Now, how do we know what kind of music He wants at Mass? Listening to His Church is a very good place to start–and the Church has insisted that Gregorian Chant should have pride of place in all of our sacred music (and, by the way, that the organ is the preferred instrument).
Does that mean that we can never have anything but Gregorian Chant at Mass? Not at all–but all other music, no matter when it was written, what culture produced it, or what instruments are used in its manufacture–must be measured against the clear standards of sacred music which have been developed over the slow pace of two thousand years.
When the missionaries of the Church (not Anglos, btw) encountered some of my ancestors in Ireland once upon a time, they heard traditional Celtic music. A lilt or two of that music has made its way into sacred hymnody, but it took a long time for it to get there, and in the meantime nobody was suggesting “Hey, let’s throw out all this elegant chant and polyphony–those Irish Chieftains rock! We want them to feel welcome! We’re diverse! And why should we bother listening to the Church’s opinion on the subject?”
The true process of incorporating the musical heritage of many cultures into the music used at our highest form of worship takes time, as it should–otherwise our good intentions lead inexorably along the road to musical chaos, just like similar intentions regarding Church architecture has led to the proliferation of what a friend of mine has called “Our Lady of the Pizza Hut” churches.
Rushing to add all sorts of music into the Mass regardless of that music’s suitability, reverence, Catholicity, level of competent composition, or even simple aesthetics is not doing anybody a service. All it’s doing is saying that we think we, and our agendas and notions, are more important than what the Church thinks and teaches about sacred liturgy, and the standards of sacred music. In the end, there is more than a little pride in such an attitude.
From the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal):
41. All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds pride of place because it is proper to
the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way
excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster
the participation of all the faithful.50
Since faithful from different countries come together ever more frequently, it is fitting that they
know how to sing together at least some parts of the Ordinary of the Mass in Latin, especially
the Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, set to the simpler melodies.
The GIRM recognizes that Latin is the unifying language…this does not preclude cultural expression, of course. I certainly hope than no one desires to “anglicize” the Mass. This is really not about personal preference, but the norms and the unity that make us all one. That is what it means to be Catholic…not to be Anglo, or Hispanic, or Italian, or French…but to be one, which is Christ’s prayer to Father: “that they may be one…”
Margaret, I thank you for providing a forum for this discussion. I’m personally thrilled to see so many good, Catholic souls thinking deeply and discussing charitably our desire to see our faith and traditions preserved. That’s really what this is all about isn’t it? We’re all working toward supporting our Holy Father’s efforts to unite God’s people, not divide. Thank you again, I’ve enjoyed reading all of the comments and continue to look forward to the new “springtime” in the Church!
I’ve been thinking about these musical musings, and came back late to offer some analogies (figuring no one else was even reading this section anymore), and there are many more comments than the last time I was here!
I’ve been thinking about these ideas as they relate to the family. For example, when we order pizza, we usually get two. Now and then I would like ham and pineapple or beef and onion or onion, mushroom, tomato, and artichoke. But we get one with Italian sausage and one with pepperoni. A few of (the 8 of) us are getting exactly the pizza we want, and others are settling for less than our ideal. I’m settling partly for love and partly for family peace and partly because it’s more important to have two pizzas that we’ll all eat than to have my favorite.
It’s like that with other foods, too. There are some unsophisticated palates at our house, so some of our food is quite simple. I do introduce other foods and flavors, of course, b/c that’s one way to help them grow, but again, I don’t make just what I like.
As far as the idea of giving a visitor what he likes best, that is a good idea in principle, but not always in practice. Again, if this very important family member came to visit, I would want all my children to offer something, whether it is my teen’s beautiful voice or the three year old’s simple drawings or the seven year old’s piano playing. I think offering what we have with love is beautiful. And as a parent, I want all my children to be able to participate and share the gifts they have. I imagine this might be how the bishop of Washington felt about including the many languages and cultures of his flock. I thought it was conscious, but not necessarily self conscious, if you know what I mean.
I didn’t intend to go on so long. This has been an interesting discussion.
i don’t think anyone is trying to be uncharitable or racist. i think jp II would have 100% appreciated multiculturally music at a mass celebrating him, because that is what his papacy was about-unity (and celebrating our multiculturalism as a church), and so it would have been fitting. i think that the point people are making is that pope benedict’s papacy has been infused with openness to and respect for a return to traditionalism in the liturgy, and so a mass celebrating THAT might have been more appropriate. yes, i do think people have OPINIONS about liturgical music….and all of us are free to have them. i think the only original point was to celebrate more what this particular pope was about….an openness to going back and celebrating some of our early musical traditions in our faith, which are beautiful…
First, apologies, I let my discouragement spread and that is not helpful. (I would actually have done so earlier but but my DH was working on a new computer for me and the bottom row of the keyboard doesn’t work.)
Right after typing I watched as they read from Ephesians on “bearing with one another with patience” which I was not doing.
Many of the celebrations did honor the Pope’s vision of making Latin more accessible and showing how beautifully it praises God. As I said our parish never let this die.
I know I have to watch my perspective on multi-culturalism. Not meaning to sound racist does not excuse that I have done so in my past and hurt beautiful people Christ brought to my life. They were patient with me, loving, willing to wait til the best moment to draw me forward. Now I see things through different eyes.
Its a conversion of heart that will bring me to be more patient. I’ll pray for it yet again.